Do you ever get to the point where you just need a little faith in humanity? Well find something soft and fuzzy, and brew up a nice hot cup of tea. Welcome to Gaining Advantage. Welcome to Gaining Advantage. We're using role playing games like Dungeons & Dragons to make other people's lives better. And we have a wonderful guest, a couple of guests, that are going to help you out with how to do that, but before we get to that, I want to tell you about some of the things that we're doing here at Wyrmworks Publishing to make all of that happened and make it possible. Alright, first of all we have started our line of Accessible Adventures of the Week, and Disabled NPC of the Week. And those are available at the DMs Guild, and what they do is they take concepts like disability, and they incorporate them into the game. And so, you may have heard that we have a book coming out, that is going to be a compendium of all kinds of symptoms of disabilities, neurodiversity, and mental illness. And so what these adventures do is they take excerpts from that book and incorporate them into characters and explore other issues that are associated with people with disabilities, people with mental illness, people with neurodivergence, people with chronic illness, all kinds of others situations that people deal with that would be really helpful for more people to just understand what it's like, or to to learn how to interact with people if you feel uncomfortable around people — you don't know what to say or, or you don't know what to do, you don't want to say the wrong thing or, or whatever. This will help you to do that and help you to introduce it to your players. And so those are available for free on DMs Guild. And then also, if you are one of our patrons, and patreon link in the show notes, you can also find 4k combat maps available for the various encounters in each of those adventures. Now if you're not a patron you're not quite ready to do that yet, I understand, not sure whether you want to commit to something, an ongoing monthly kind of cost. We also have those maps available at our itch.io store. And the link for that will also be available in the show notes. And you can buy those maps, individually or per adventure, and they're only a buck an adventure, so it's a pretty good deal. So also, if you'd like to know more about that all the different projects that we have going on, you can sign up for our free weekly newsletter. Just go to WyrmworksPublishing.com, and as soon as you sign up, you get a free subclass that we developed a while back, and you get release announcements, you get notifications of new products, you find out as soon as things are available, and you get tips on how to use role playing games to make people's lives better. So the more support that we get on this end, the more we can help you make lives better. And so, whether it is just through following that by sharing — All right, it's we really value any kind of sharing you can do — you see something that we're doing, you think it's a good idea. Let people know, get that out there, Facebook, Twitter, whatever your, your social media of choice is, get that out there, let people know, because we want to help a lot of people, but if they don't know about what we're offering, then we can't help them, and, or more is the point, we want you to be able to help them, and we want to provide you the resources and and help you, help them to help other people and so just a whole bunch of help goes around. And so any sharing that you can do we really appreciate, any monthly donations or weekly donations, or whatever that you can do helps us out — that really makes a huge difference. And so with that said, let's go ahead and jump right into our interview. Wyrmworks Publishing It's been a rough year and a half for a lot of people, wherever you are. I bet you've had some big challenges in your life. Wouldn't it be nice to relax, have some fun, know that somebody cares about you? Today we welcome Honey, the heart and soul behind Honey and Dice, an advocate for people with medical challenges, neurodivergence, chronic illness, and disability. Welcome Honey. Honey Thank you for having me. Wyrmworks Publishing So tell us about Honey and Dice. How did you get started and what has that led to? Honey All right, Honey and Dice really started as me looking for a sort of geeky sort of tabletop gaming related username for Twitter. That's really how that came about. It was a play on sugar and spice, I said Honey and Dice — honey is healing and sweet and then dice was gaming. So I started getting involved in some charity work especially with Extra Life because they wanted individual little channels and little groups of people who were starting to do their TTRPG or other things, and got invited to participate in the … Live, which was really fun. And after that everything sort of blew up, I had already been running in-person. I had already been doing a lot of charity work individually. And I thought it was a new platform, to not only do what I'm passionate about, in the realms of disability access to gain medical challenge awareness and raising money and funds for charitable organizations and groups that needed it, but also to do collaborative storytelling and run people through adventures in this really unique way that helps people connect through their creativity. So that's how Honey and Dice got started. Wyrmworks Publishing And so, what have you been up to lately? Honey What have I been up to lately? Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah Honey Well I was running, on the gaming side, I was running Clockwork Vines and I'm still running that which is botanical steampunk, and I took my love of the language of flowers from Victorian…technology and created a unique setting that involves a lot of inclusivity and unique tropes. I have been personally working on researching local charities that help not only children but adults and families that deal with medical challenges and disabilities, and finding unique ways to come up with fundraisers and get them the help that they need, especially through 2020. There was a lot of shelters and schools and charitable organizations that needed a lot of help that did not get a lot of attention in the mainstream media. And so getting to find ways to connect with those groups was something that I really enjoyed last year. I have a new game that's starting in a couple of weeks, using my own unique system called Composure. And that's all music based. So I'm very excited about that as well. Wyrmworks Publishing So how can people in the tabletop role playing game community benefit from your work? Honey That's a challenging question, because I feel that my work benefits because of the people in the tabletop role playing game community — without having a platform to talk about loving yourself, of being kind, being compassionate, actively listening and actually exploring what kindness looks like, not only through words but through action, I always describe the different people that I have been really honored and blessed to meet and interact with, to be with us…and I just look up and everything is shining, so it is because they give me a platform to share my message of kindness that I'm able to benefit, as any type of creator or writer or storyteller. Wyrmworks Publishing So how have you seen lives changed because of your work? Honey I have seen people learn that they were good at things that they didn't originally think that they were good at get not only professional but personal opportunities, get invited to larger platforms with larger audiences, and to just grow not only as professionals or entertainers or writers or creators, but as people and being told, ok, I started at this random table or this random group of people that Honey pulled together to play a game, or hey I started because I helped out with this charity event that Honey put attention on, and before I knew it, I found myself doing X, Y and Z. But I don't think it's because of me. I think I've just gotten to witness the growth of all these beautiful flowers, because of where I am in the community. Wyrmworks Publishing I like to say that we are the forever DMs for other people so that they can be the heroes. Honey That's a good way of looking at it. Wyrmworks Publishing So you just rescued a djinn from the hands of an efreet, and it offers you three wishes to achieve Honey and Dice's goals. What do you wish for? Honey One, I wish for the financial resources and recourses to be able to continue giving, not only to like just charitable organizations but to people who are building a platform to affect continued change. That would be my first wish, like having those financial resources or recourses readily available. Two, I would wish for the opportunities that the people who seem to be in my professional and personal circles in this community, but the opportunities that they are looking for in order to not only just prove, but show the world what they can do. It would be such a beautiful thing to see more of those opportunities within reach for those people. And lastly, always say you have to have the guts to set goals and meet all your challenges with grace. So, and this is not a deflection. But last my wish, always is that people realize how amazing and how valuable that they are and that the world is a better place because they are here, and if people can hear that message, and it resonates with them and encourages them, there would be no need to wish for anything else, because that would be everything. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah that is not a deflection at all. I absolutely resonate and agree with that. It's very much in line with with what we're trying to accomplish at Wyrmworks. So absolutely — just makes me happy hearing that. So what one message, and I think you might have just answered this one, but what one message would you like to give people with medical challenges, neurodivergence, chronic illness, or disability? Honey To love your you. It seems it sounds a lot easier than it actually is, but for me it is one of the most important things that I always encourage people to love your you, do what you need to protect yourself, do what you need to get the help that you need in whatever way that may be, and never let anyone tell you or suggest or make you feel as though you're othered by your unique experience, because that is you, and the all that is you is so beautiful and amazing. Wyrmworks Publishing And what message would you like to give without people or to give to people without medical challenges neurodivergence, chronic illness or disability? Honey It would be the same — to love your you. In any cross-section of social interaction, there are people that resonate with a certain experience and there are people who might not be able to resonate with that personal experience or that medical experience or that life event, but there's other vibrational waves that they sort of ride in this whole musical piece that is social interaction. So, the loving of yourself and the being kind, and being compassionate and being caring. I think both groups of people need to be reminded of that, because you never know what someone is going through. Wyrmworks Publishing So I think you already answered what projects are you working on now — is there anything else you'd like to add? Honey Keep an eye on my socials for August — it's my birthday month so I have been highlighting various charities and organizations using the funds that come in to my Kofi to do different things like support organizations like Icing Smiles, which produces beautiful cakes for children and infants who either have chronic illnesses or hospitalized and so on — they coordinate with bakers, all over the United States to make these amazing cakes for these children and their families. And that's one big thing that I'm saving up quite a bit of my donations and tips for so I can get at least a couple of cakes into some of the children that are positively affected by that organization's work. Composure is coming up in a couple of weeks, but just you there'll be a lot on my page about charities that I'm supporting and wishlists for different schools, or shelters and so on and the things that they need. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so we will have all your contact information in our show notes, but where's the one best place you'd like people to start to learn more about you or to contact you, Honey The easiest way to find everything about me in a high level and then get the rest of my contact information as well is to go to www.honeyanddice.com, and everything is there. Wyrmworks Publishing So thanks for coming on the show, we'll put those links in the show notes. Honey All right. Wyrmworks Publishing Is everyone comfortable? This next section might not be so comfortable for some of you. So here's a Content Trigger Warning, we're going to be talking about eating disorders. So if that's problematic for you, right now, stop, hit the like button, the subscribe button and the share buttons. And then we'll see you next episode. For everyone else, welcome to Playing the Other: how to play a disabled, mentally ill, or neurodivergent character, whether PC or NPC that properly represents symptoms, so as to represent those real life people in your game, and give them depth as characters, while avoiding harmful stereotypes and tropes. Today to help us with that, I'm happy to welcome Sebastian Yūe. Welcome. Sebastian Yūe Hi there. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so what would you like us to know about you as a person and a gamer? Sebastian Yūe Well I'm Sebastian. I'm a game designer and editor, a model, a TTRPG performer, and a voice actor. I've written so far, mostly for D&D 5e on the Dungeon Master's Guild but I'm also building a portfolio of indie games on itch.io. I am the author of Crossroads, which is a card based prompt game that explores grief and hope, and I wrote Lake of Secrets which is a darker magical fantasy 5e adventure for one to six players and Lake of secrets is pertinent to our conversation today, because it was originally designed for use at a support group for trans people with eating disorders. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so what would you like people to know about your, your symptoms, your experiences, how you experience them, how you adapt to them and what is and isn't helpful for you? Sebastian Yūe In terms of role playing, and in gaming, you mean? Wyrmworks Publishing Well I mean personally and then how that would play out. Sebastian Yūe Because I think that what I would say is that if you are interested in playing a character with a particular condition, or, or anything, it really depends on how you want that to manifest in your character story. So it's really important to think about how you want to show that as a player, and that could be in the form of mechanics which is something that you can discuss with the GM, as well as something that, as well as how far you go in roleplay which is something you would discuss with your table and the rest of your players. I think that there's such a wide variety of ways in which people experience their own, in which it's possible to experience different conditions that you kind of have to find, like with like, what kind of story you want to tell as a person, whether you're drawing on personal experience or whether it's just something like that you would like to explore. I think that if you're going down the mechanics route, it's important to look to look for how I guess that's where you come in with the symptoms aspect of it. I think that you could argue that, for instance, if you if you have an eating disorder you can make an argument that you can get advantage on Constitution saving throws because you're used to pushing your body harder than it has to be. Or you could also argue that through doing that you have weakened yourself and you get disadvantage — it can really depend. So that's something that can come up that can be quite personal, that I would recommend you would work out with the GM than the rest of the table. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay, and so on the subject of eating disorders, how, when, when you're thinking about a character and how you play that character beyond mechanics, more in the sort of roleplay area, you think of, what are some harmful tropes or beneficial ways to think about it, that people need to be aware of. Sebastian Yūe I think that people need to be aware of, in particular with I think some of the eating disorders, there's a lot of issues around media and around glorifying the symptoms. So I think that that's something you would discuss with your table, and if you're doing it for a show or for somewhere that's some game that's going to be publicly available, that's something that you would discuss with them as well in the sense that you don't really want to end up giving people like a graphic depiction of something that's deeply upsetting, or, or so, or if people are watching, you don't really want to end up giving them inadvertent like tips on how to make their life worse, if that makes sense? Wyrmworks Publishing Sure. Sebastian Yūe So I think there are ways to show through role playing, and you can you can do it as a kind of, you know, this this issue happens off screen, or this issue happens on screen, it depends on how you want to portray it. So for instance, maybe you're all you're making up camp, and it's dinner time, and you just say, "Well you know my characters off in this corner, and they look kind of uncomfortable, and they would just rather be by themselves," and if you want to have, if another player wants to have their character go over and ask, "What's up," then you would play out that scene. I would generally discourage against like graphic depictions of harmful behaviors such as, I don't know, purging — that's a big one too. But again it depends on the nature of your own, your own setup and like what kind of tone your game is taking. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, yeah. And here's where, like, you know, session zero discussions and lines and veils and things like that. Sebastian Yūe Yeah, definitely safety tools just to make sure that everybody is aware of your boundaries, and everyone is comfortable, and also everyone is aware of the themes that you do want to explore. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay, so also thinking about how party members, other party members, you know, if you're playing, say someone else in your game is playing a character with an eating disorder, alright, and you are a party member in that party, but you're not that character, what would be helpful for those party members? Sebastian Yūe Um, I think that in terms of playing, playing with some with another character who has an eating disorder, I think it's a conversation to have with that character's player. I would definitely ask so your, your character, you're playing a character with this certain condition, what ways do you see your character's story going and how would you see the relationship to the rest of the party factoring into that? Like, I would try to find out what the player wants for their character if they're if the player goes out of their way to put their character in a state of distress like, are they looking for help or are they not looking for help, because I think that just clear communication between players is key to good roleplay, because then everyone's on the same page and we can strive towards a goal and I think it can be most rewarding when you have an overarching unified goal in sight, if that makes sense? Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, sure. Sebastian Yūe Yeah. Wyrmworks Publishing So, I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk about the project that you mentioned at the beginning. Why don't you go ahead and fill us in on that one on a bit. Sebastian Yūe Oh, so Lake of Secrets — it's set in this fallen kingdom, where the party is tasked with going to retrieve, like the leader of the kingdom, who recently lost a war against demons, and it's very like the atmosphere when, when the characters arrive is very reserved and nervous, because it's been quite recently that the demons have left, and nobody knows about the circumstances that made them leave. So like they were occupying this territory and then everyone kind of woke up one day and found out that the demons were gone, but also the leader has gone missing, and they don't know what exactly happened. And the idea behind that is that the leader, like they go through the dungeon to go and rescue the leader, and then as they go through it, they, they find all sorts of clues as to what exactly the leader did to get rid of the demons, and to and to find out how they can possibly retrieve them, if that makes sense. Like, it was designed for, for an adult support group for trans people with eating disorders, initially, because we were talking about, like we all took turns to facilitate or to choose the activity, and I was really into D&D at the time as well, and I said well I could possibly put together a one shot for for everybody who's present, and they wanted to explore themes that would be pertinent to the group as well as telling a really compelling story. And so I thought that I really wanted to tell the story of what happens after like a country had lost, because usually I think that a lot of like big, epic stories revolve around trying to prevent things like the end of the world or trying to prevent a war, but I was thinking about what happens after that stuff has already happened, and you have to deal with the fallout, because I thought that would be a setting where I could put in various like metaphors and stuff for for eating disorders. Wyrmworks Publishing Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Sebastian Yūe Yeah, I didn't include anything like explicit, but I do think that the symbolism is there if, if it's something that resonates with you or if it's, or if you're looking for it. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay. So, do you have other online projects, or other projects in general that you're working on right now, that be good to know about? Sebastian Yūe So I recently released Crossroads, which is I'm kind of billing it as a game at the intersection of grief and hope, because I'd like for people to be able to do some deep kind of character work, and the premises that people find themselves at this ethereal extra dimensional location known as the Crossroads, and it's there that they meet other people and they can, they can share their stories, they can build and break their bonds, and then they, and then throughout there's a mapmaking component, so then they can illustrate what the space looks like to them as it kind of shifts with their perspective through the game. And the idea is that everybody has their own interpretation of what the space looks like, but also all interpretations that are simultaneously true because it's a, it's an ethereal space that doesn't really conform to the logic of of today's world. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay. And so, social media profiles, where can people contact you or learn more about you and your projects. Sebastian Yūe Oh, I'm on Twitter @sebastianyue, just my name all one word, and from there I have a bunch of links to my projects and to my website and I think those will be posted down below on this page as well. Wyrmworks Publishing Yep. Yep, That's right. And so definitely check out our show notes and learn more about their projects. So everyone's experience is different. And so we want to note what you heard today doesn't represent everyone with similar symptoms or diagnoses, that's really important to remember, even on the subject of eating disorders, there's lots of different ones, and, and they express themselves differently in different people. And so if you'd like to come on the show and help people understand your symptoms so they can have more accurate representation in their games, go to WyrmworksPublishing.com and contact me there. Sebastian, do you have anything else you'd like to share with us today? Sebastian Yūe I think that I would just like to put emphasis on the role of communication at your table and making sure that things are clear. It's, it's always worth stopping and saying, "Oh you're saying this in character or as a player," or, "Is this where you want it to seem to go?" and just to know that the game is flexible and you could always do things like, "Oh, that wasn't necessarily what I meant to say and if we could redo that scene over again," that all of those kinds of things should be welcome at the table, because I think it facilitates the best roleplay and the best game experience to everybody. I think that it's important to, like, to, to make sure that you are considering the feelings of other players and that the other players are considering your feelings, and no matter how light or heavy your campaign is going. Yeah, I just would say that that's just really important and that's the key to literally anything, and mechanically if you want to do things, if you want to, if you want to say that, "No, I'm going to do this as purely a roleplay thing, then that's okay, but if you do want to bring mechanics into it, I would just discuss this with the GM to make sure that nothing is wildly wildly unfair or puts you in a wild disadvantage that you can't make up for later, unless that is the experience you're looking for and you do want to show that it is a debilitating experience, which it can be. I think that there isn't really one set way for for any person to do it, it just depends on what you're looking to accomplish out of playing the character. Wyrmworks Publishing Well thank you for sharing yourself with us and for sharing your expertise, so that we can bring reality into fantasy and thus make that fantasy world a reality. Sebastian Yūe Thank you very much for having me. I'm really happy to have been here. Thank you. So just a reminder that there is a link to Lake of Secrets in the show notes, and it is part of the Play It Forward program, alright, so you can choose different prices depending on what you can afford, including free. But Sebastian would certainly appreciate any amount that you can pay, and so there's different options there for how that works and how much that you can pay to support that, those kinds of products being made available. So thanks for sticking around. And so I'm guessing that that means that you care about making other people's lives better. And so, like ask again that you please consider helping us to help you and others to do that by supporting our Patreon. The link is in the show notes — if you can't we understand. 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