Quick, name your top three favorite disabled science fiction or fantasy characters besides Geordi LaForge. Not easy, is it? Why not? Welcome to Gaining Advantage. Welcome to Gaining Advantage. We're using role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons to make people's lives better. If you haven't, I invite you right now to go get our Accessible Adventure Of The Week and Disabled NPC of the Week, that are available at DMs Guild. And also, you can sign up for our newsletter at WyrmworksPublishing.com to get notifications of new ones — those come out free every week. And so if you sign up, you'll find out right away when they come available so you can get them. And speaking of, we did a special adventure recently it's called Casts with Wolves, and you can find that on our website or you can just search for it at DMs Guild. All the royalties from that, go to the person behind PoC in TTRPG who does a lot of work to help people of color in the TTRPG community, and that person is also unemployed, currently homeless and disabled. And so we set up that adventure as a pay what you want, and 100% of the royalties from that are going to go straight to them. There's also a link in the adventure, so if you download it, go to the PDF. You can find a link to their Ko-fi in right in the adventure you, you can skip DMs Guild taking a cut out of it first. But either way, whatever is easiest for you to help out would be really appreciated. And even if you're, if you're seeing this, a year from when it was recorded, we're still gonna keep on helping out as long as that need continues. So again that's called Casts with Wolves. An announcement that we have this week that I'm very excited about is that you may have heard about the book that we're working on Disabilities and Depth: adding disabilities and neurodiversity to fifth edition Dungeons and Dragons. Our patrons have heard about it already. And those on our newsletter have heard about it already, but if you haven't, we're going to be launching that book as a Kickstarter in January of 2022, and there's going to be, by having it as a Kickstarter instead of just putting it up on DMs Guild, it's gonna allow a lot of extras to go with it. And so you can keep the easiest thing to do is to sign up for that, or to find out more information, go to our website WyrmworksPublishing.com and sign up for our newsletter and then you will find out as soon as that is available. If you're watching this afterward, you can find that book will be available on Indie Press Revolution. And so we will…. If you just go to WyrmworksPublishing.com, you'll be able to find a link to it there. Or you can just do a Google search on Disabilities and Depth. So with all that out of the way, let's get right to our interview. Wyrmworks Publishing We all have a different perspective on the world, informed by our experiences, the things we do, the things done to us, the people in our lives both close and unknown. And one of the best ways to broaden our perspectives is by recognizing others' perspectives and developing empathy for their experiences, today, I invite you to take your perspective and tear it wide open by someone who does that for a living. We're joined today by author, editor, and advocate Elsa Sjunneson, a deaf blind hurricane in a vintage dress. Welcome Elsa. Elsa Sjunneson Thanks so much for having me. Wyrmworks Publishing So what would you like us to know about you personally and specifically speaking to the tabletop role playing game crowd. Elsa Sjunneson Well I've been working in tabletop since about 2014. I'm one of the people who's sort of been credited with pushing for accessibility in game design. My book, The Fate Accessibility Toolkit came out last year in digital form, and it releases as the physical book this year actually on October 5. So I guess those are good things to know about me. I've been around for a while. I've been doing lots of different kinds of gaming the deaf blind perspective, and I've been working to improve the tabletop world itself for other disabled people. Wyrmworks Publishing So, what projects do you have, you mentioned the, the Fate Accessibility Toolkit, what other projects, do you have that our viewers need to know about? Elsa Sjunneson Well, there's my memoir, which also comes out on October 5 this year, apparently everything is releasing on the same day. Being Seen: One Deafblind Woman's Fight to End Ableism, which is about my experiences as a deafblind woman, and using them to connect with the media that represents disability, or rather, it doesn't represent disability well at all, and that's part of the problem. So I, I wrote a book that's sort of part memoir part cultural criticism, and that's what you get when you buy Being Seen. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah and, and you're absolutely right, I just have to say as I've was looking around for, just in the tabletop role playing game arena, looking for resources, articles and things like that, the Fate Toolkit is is definitely one of the best known, which is sort of ironic because while Fate is a popular system it's nowhere near as popular as some of the other systems out there. And, you know, as far as articles, blog posts, anything like that about disabilities in role playing games. I found about a half a dozen total on the whole internet — that's actually how I found you. Because you were one of 'em. Elsa Sjunneson Yeah. Wyrmworks Publishing So how do you use science fiction and fantasy to make the real world a better place? Elsa Sjunneson Well I think that creating futures that include disabled people makes the world a better place. I think science fiction has this opportunity to help people think in a different way about what's going to happen 10, 15, 20 years down the line, but a lot of science fiction has been using that to think about getting rid of disability, or getting rid of certain races or getting rid of certain genders, and I think that it's actually better to start thinking about the world as an inclusive future. And the only way that we do that is by actually envisioning people who are disabled in the future, by envisioning women, by envisioning people of color, and developing those spaces as a way of future thinking. If we think about the future from that lens, from an inclusive lens, what we're actually doing is building a better future, as people who think, so that's that's how I use genre to sort of change the world. And there's a lot of people doing it. Wyrmworks Publishing It's…this seems so obvious. And, and yet, clearly it's not. And so, I just I appreciate you saying that and sharing that perspective. So how can people in the tabletop role playing game community benefit from your work? Elsa Sjunneson Well, I mean, I think one of the things is just being aware that there are disabled people in the community. When I first started playing games I was the only deaf person at the table. Elsa Sjunneson Yeah, I was, I was always sort of telling people well I can't actually read my dice like a, this is more key, and I think I've seen a change, just in the last five or six years, people like, conventions are more welcoming to disabled gamers. I think I've seen a cultural shift — people are starting to think about disability as more than just a flaw, which was one of the issues with World of Darkness games is that you could take a disability in order to get more points to make your character cooler. So I think that by sort of creating disability in a less negative space has actually helped to create a better space in tabletop. I hope that tabletop gamers will take that knowledge and actually take it out into the real world. Like, if you are playing characters who are disabled and you actually meet real disabled people that you're just kind to them that you don't treat them like they have a "special needs." I hope that like, you also don't assume that you know what it's like to be disabled because you played a blind vampire once. So I guess that's sort of what I hope that I built, to see without building sort of knowledge, that doesn't actually exist. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay, yeah. So, it's, it's a balance, right, of, of growing awareness, but not thinking you have it all figured out. Elsa Sjunneson Yeah, exactly. Wyrmworks Publishing It seems like in, whether you're talking disability, whether you're talking race, gender, any of that, that seems like, you know, people have a hard time figuring out like, "Okay, how do I do this if I'm not disabled if I'm not this race or gender, or whatever, like how do I how do I, you know, interact with that, or how do I how do I how do I deal with that," or if, but, but yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the head there that it's, it's a matter of recognizing that that balance between learning and not being a know it all, and recognizing, so stay in your lane I guess is the expression. Appreciate that. Elsa Sjunneson Yeah no I mean I think it's sort of, it's important to recognize the difference between experiential learning which is bad, which is the idea that you were a disabled character in a movie or on a game once and now you know what it's like versus seeing that as an opportunity to learn. Wyrmworks Publishing So, how have you seen lives changed because of your work? Elsa Sjunneson Oh gosh. I mean, I, in 2019, the Disabled People Destroy Science Fiction won a Hugo Award, and it won an Aurora Award. I remember after both of those awards ceremonies, disabled people came up to me and we're just talking about the fact that it was the first time that they had seen someone like them up on an award stage, that it was the first time that they had seen work of disabled people really matter, outside of the community and that they felt represented, and I think that for me, that's what's most important is that people feel represented, that they feel seen, that at the end of the day we matter where we're not, yeah, this is not the era of institutionalization any longer, we're not being shoved into institutions, our families are not leaving us behind. And so I think it's really important to remember that, and to remember that like, we actually existed matter. Wyrmworks Publishing Every time I hear stories like that I think that I have this mix of, "Yeah all right," and then also, "Wait, it's about time. What year is it and this is, we're still, you know, dealing with this?" So, you just rescued a djinn from the hands of an efreet, and it offers you three wishes to achieve your advocacy goals. What would you wish for? Elsa Sjunneson Brand new hearing aids that recharge. Because those things are real expensive and also insurance doesn't cover them. I would probably wish for some, some wide sweeping legislation in the United States to change health care while I was at it, possibly just worldwide health care if I could get away with it because we need it.And then, you know that third wish is always tricky, right, like, you have to kind of think about it a little bit like the hearing aids are important, the, the health care is definitely important, not just because everybody deserves health care because it's a right, not a privilege, but also because quite frankly, I'm a freelancer. And finally, like I think I would just wish…accessible house that I have right now that I live in, but fully accessible, like I didn't have to put any money into it, I could just have all of the accessibility features right away. No labor, no cost. It just works. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah. So what what one message would you like to give to gamers who are disabled? Elsa Sjunneson I think to keep educating your communities, which I know really sucks. I wish that we didn't have to educate people all the time. But unfortunately cultural fluency isn't there yet, we don't have we don't have full cultural fluency in the gaming world for disability yet. So keep plugging at, it keep telling people what you need, keep insisting for accessibility, because people are catching up, and it's taking a little bit longer than I would like, and that is the reality. But I think we need to really consider the idea that educating is working. It is working, because I go to different conventions, and I see that cons I have never touched are now doing accessibility measures that I came up with in a completely different context, so we're having an impact. Wyrmworks Publishing Wow, yeah that's encouraging. Just to know that you know that it is making a difference. It's not a… it's not futile. So, as exhausting as it can be to know that you are actually accomplishing something. So what one message you'd like to give gamers who are not disabled? Elsa Sjunneson Listen, listen early, listen often, listen specifically. And when someone tells you something that they need for accessibility, don't ask questions, because you actually don't know more than the disabled person about what they need. You never do. I know you think you do, you don't. You cannot solve their disability through come up with some new invention that you have. It's not your job. Just do what people ask you to do, and everybody would be a lot happier for it, and stop asking people for their medical histories, because it's not your job, it's not your call. It's not your story, just accept that people are disabled and move on. Wyrmworks Publishing I think my, my least favorite sentences in the world start out with, "Have you tried…?" Elsa Sjunneson Yeah, "Have you tried yoga, have you tried this kind of yoga, have you tried kombucha? Have you tried CBD?" The other one that I don't like is, "What's wrong with you?" Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah. So you mentioned your book that's coming out, and we'll have a link to that in the show notes. Are there any other projects that you're working on now? Elsa Sjunneson I was just announced, I can actually talk about it that I'm working on an Assassin's Creed novel. I can't really say a whole lot about it, but it does take place in the Valhalla universe, and I do get to murder people. That's kind of all I can say. But that comes out in 2022. Wyrmworks Publishing You know you're a gamer or into science fiction and that when you worry that the government is going to check your search history. Elsa Sjunneson Oh the the entire science fiction writing community has concerns about what happens if the NSA gets ahold of our search histories. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so we'll have all your contact information in our show notes, links to projects, where's the one best place that you'd like people to start to learn more about you or to contact you? Elsa Sjunneson My website snarkbat.com is a great place to go. It has links to preorder my books. It has links to every essay I have ever written. And to my Twitter, and it has information about where you can find me next. Wyrmworks Publishing And those are, I just want to say if you have not read that stuff, go read it. It's just really delightful and, you know, educational, but fun at the same time. So Elsa Sjunneson Thank you so much. Wyrmworks Publishing Thank you for coming on the show, and everyone, check out those links in the show notes. Wyrmworks Publishing Before we begin the next section, here's a Content Trigger Warning, we're going to be talking about endogetic plurality, more commonly known as dissociative identity disorder, or multiple personality disorder. So if that's problematic for you, thank you so much for sticking with us and being part of the solution. I invite you to hit the like and subscribe and share buttons, and we'll see you next episode. For everyone else, welcome to playing the other: how to play a disabled, mentally ill, or neurodivergent character, whether PC or NPC, that properly represents symptoms, so as to represent those real life people in your game, and give them depth as characters, while avoiding harmful stereotypes and tropes. So today to help us with that we are joined by IdenTTRPG. Welcome, Fara and PhiNyx. Fara Hey, thanks for having us. Wyrmworks Publishing All right, so before we get into the usual questions, plurality has been so misrepresented in our culture, that it would be helpful to start with terminology and myths associated with it. So could you start with just some baseline information about what it means to be plural, how it's different from, say, an imaginary friend or depictions in the media, and then what terminology would be helpful. Fara Yeah of course. So, being plural means a lot of different things for a lot of different individuals who identify with plurality, whether it be medically diagnosed with some sort of plurality, or having their own suspicions, feeling the same way that a lot of other plural individuals do. And so, being plural is essentially just having more than one voice in your head, having more than one person, and it's not necessarily like your subconscious, like you know something telling you, "Maybe I shouldn't do this; maybe this isn't a good idea." It's more than that it's someone else that sounds completely different, might have different goals, ideals, a completely person… different personality than you. And that's kind of what plurality is — it really just depends on, you know, who you are, what you experience. And so a lot of the misconceptions that people have in the media, like in lots of movies, shows how plurality is has been represented, is that like, Oh, if you have DID are like this dangerous person, and you can be one person, and you can harm other people, and it's not necessarily the case—a lot of alters even people with DID, they don't always have alters who want to cause harm either to other people or themselves. Like my version of plurality is kind of like an offset to DID. There's DDNOS and all of those other ones and those ones are not qualified to be DID because mostly those ones, they have other alters, but none of them have a negative impact either on the person, the host themselves, or on other people. So that's definitely something that is very misconstrued in current media and all of that. Some basic terminology: A lot of people bounce between using the word alters versus headmates. Headmates is a lot more common. People are more comfortable using that. A lot of people who do use alter are either that's what they're exposed to when they first look it up, or that's more like a medical diagnose like people who are medically diagnosed and or in the medical field discussing plurality, use the word alter to identify the different personalities, because they're… the description of what this is has changed — it's not just that they're personalities. They are their own people, and they are pieces of personalities. So alter and headspace are very common things that you'll hear describing the different individuals living in someone else's head. There are many different roles that each of these alters will play, and that's definitely something that if you're interested in, you should definitely look up. There are so many different roles that they can play in so many different ways that they can present to that. But yeah, typically headspace…headmates and altar, being in one headspace. Those are the big like very common terms that you'll hear, and most of the time if you're talking about the person you see in front of you versus anyone else in their head, that's usually the host. That's usually who represents the system first or primarily. And there are, there are totally possibilities of having multiple hosts. But hosts are the ones that you'll know primarily, you'll see them, you'll know of them, you'll know their name more often, they'll most likely introduce themselves first. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay. Other, you know, one term that I've become familiar with is fronting and…can you talk about that and, and also, not just what the word means, but what the experience is. Fara Yeah so fronting, and another one that's used either in place of that or with that is also switching: fronting is whichever alter or headmate is in the front — it's kind of exactly what it means, but going into that a little bit deeper fronting is, it is the complete change, it is whoever's you are talking to, if you're the outside person, it's who you are addressing, who you're talking to, who you're with, it's it's pretty much who you're acknowledging, who you're discussing anything with. [Dog barking intermittently in background] And with that, switching is switching between alters, there are plenty of plurals who are able to switch back and forth between, you know, more commonly the two hosts or more hosts whoever's more likely to front and kind of something that what that's like for the it's it depends on your type of plurality, it depends on how you are plural. It depends on what your system is like, how you function. For my plurality, I have what I like to call copiloting, where I can have myself and at minimum one alter up to four alters, who are all in my headspace, but it's still just Fara having communication with other people, being outward fronting, but they are there giving me their commentary, observing what's going on. And with that I do have switches that occur if there's a conversation that comes up. PhiNyx will switch out, or one of my other alters will switch out, and then they will be fronting. So for me, that's kind of what fronting is like. It's not necessarily like they have to be the person who you are talking to, but they're, they're also there, but for others, fronting is a complete switch. Sometimes in plurality people will remember. And they'll also be there kind of Copiloting, but letting their alter drive. Other times into that they'll just completely forget what's happening, not know what's happening, because that for that system, whoever is fronting, that is the only headspace that exists in the brain at the moment, that's the only person that knows what's going on and doing things. So that does happen with a lot of systems as well. So fronting can mean a lot of different things to the individual who or the system, whoever is doing this, which is in fronting. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay so then what would you like us to know, in addition to what you've already talked about just kind of in general about you as a system and as gamers? Fara Yeah, um, that's a really good question. I think it's really important to know that I personally, and I feel that other systems kind of feel the same, if we present ourselves to you, if we say, "Hi, we are a system, multiple… multiple of us enjoy playing, having fun, want to play the game. They they'll will tell you how we want to identify if you just want to like hey if you just say, "Hey Fara," we know that you're talking about all of us, we know we're not excluding…They'll all set their own boundaries or at least I hope you will. For me, I usually set my own boundaries. But just knowing that, you know, that we are comfortable enough sharing this with you, and we hope that you know if you have questions, you're going to ask, like, we don't want you to just assume things, we don't want you to assume gender because all of us have our own gender identities. We don't want you to assume that one of us, just because this is our job, doesn't mean we can't do other things, doesn't mean we can't experience other things — we all have our own experiences, we all have our own memories. So we are going to experience you as people, as if you're meeting that many different people, we're all going to have our different opinions, and that doesn't, and that's not a bad thing, that doesn't have to be a bad thing — it's not a scary experience. Just be open, ask questions, ask for clarifications, all of those things really help us me as a system, both help everyone else understand, but also it makes us feel better that, not only are you interested. Not only are you interested, but you care enough to want to get things correct. Wyrmworks Publishing What would you like people to know about your symptoms, and I'm using the word symptoms not to indicate illness but rather just for lack of a better term, and it's also in my forthcoming book, that's the term that I'm using in there so, So how you experienced that, how you adapt to it, and then what is and isn't helpful, and you've kind of talked about that a little bit, but if you could expand on that. Fara Yeah. Um, so a lot of the symptoms, I get less commonly for me is amnesia, sometimes if it depends, it really depends on the situation, it depends on the people. If a situation is either really intense or really energetic, anything that's very very emotional to any extent. If I'm not the one fronting, I will have amnesia. Sometimes, a lot it's very common for in plurality, each alter will have different medical histories, for lack of a better term. So like for me, I have really bad asthma, but most of my other alters do not have asthma, they don't have a problem breathing. So it changes the biology a little bit. It makes it so that if I'm in a situation where I wouldn't be able to breathe or I would be at risk for asthma attack, one of them would one front, potentially causing amnesia. But whenever switches do happen, I also do a lot of dissociation, so I'll have lots of head twitches, little tiny minute mini neck spasms — it just looks like I'm in a little bit of pain, but I'm not. It's just the body and the brain adapting to a new plugin, someone new coming in, tapping in to punch in their time card. And these are some of the things I, myself, being plural experience with my system. Besides that I don't experience too much more physically. Emotionally is completely different story. But, um, I feel like that just comes with the territory. I adapt to things based on, you know, what my system, what we do for each other, and it's not just the system's here for me, I am as much here for the system as they are for me, so we all help each other out, we are one big family. We are one person split up into multiple people inside one brain, and that's all that is, um, so we adapt how we need to, how we're most comfortable. We know each other's weaknesses, we know each other's strengths, and we really try to do our teamwork part to, you know, help each other out, push out whatever we need to for whoever we need to, and things that are helpful from an outside pers… experience or outside perspective is, you know if visually seeing the switches, seeing, you know like, twitch, okay. Who am I talking to? That helps me acknowledge that you understand, that was a switch, or it could have been a switch, wanting to clarify wanting to acknowledge whoever might be at the front, next, um filling, whoever is in on what has happened in the last 10 minutes for whoever is fronting, whoever does switch, and taking taking a part in building relationships with the other alters, you know, if I have, I have a few of them PhiNyx, are two of them, actually, those are the two names of two alters that team up, they pair up, they talk a lot. One of them's more shy so that's why they partner up but PhiNyx fronts a lot, as well as a couple others, but you know I have a group of friends who know about my plurality, and they are very comfortable. "Oh hi PhiNyx how's it going?" They take interest in her as a person. They want to know how her day was, what she's been up to, what she's been thinking about. So those are the things that are kind of helpful, and things that aren't helpful: Obviously all the opposites of those: not paying attention, not clarifing, not asking not being sure, also things that are not helpful are you know, even whether you know or not, or, or if you're just suspecting maybe someone might be plural is just seeing a switch, seeing them one way and then seeing them another way, and going, "Wow, you weren't that way before. Why are you not the same anymore? Were you faking it?" and you know just like normal people have like their work voice versus their home voice versus their voice with their friends or their personalities, it's kind of the same thing. It's kind of like, well, why does it, a) why does it matter, like if you really, if you really wanted to know, you can ask, but why is that offensive, why does that matter, why is that any bit a question phrased in that way. And in any way disregarding that it's not a thing, that plurality can't be a thing that like even if someone isn't open to you saying that they have other personalities, they're just like, "Oh, I just, I was in this situation so I presented this way because that's how I was comfortable," even if someone is disguising their plurality to fit a situation, you know, any kind of disregard of like, "Oh well, that's kind of fake," or anything like that I have gotten that a couple times. That's definitely not helpful. It doesn't make me feel comfortable wanting to tell other people or be comfortable having even switches. A lot of my alters don't want to come out and talk to other people unless they're really familiar with the people because of this situation. But the other rest of us are like, "We should be more open, we should talk about this, we should make this a thing like yeah it's gonna be weird but gender is now a weird thing, a lot of different mental health considerations are a new thing, so much is changing, why can't this one be too." Wyrmworks Publishing So that's actually, as I've thought about this, it's it's raised a question for me with the our growing understanding of of gender not being binary, do you, do you find that people are, because they have that, are beginning to have that, that mental construct of that variety. Do you find that it's helpful to explain plurality sort of in that context or anything like that? Fara Yeah, um, sometimes I definitely do. A lot of people, when people ask me about when I tell them that I am plural and kind of what that means. They kind of asked me like, "Oh so do they all have like personalities?" Like yeah, they all have personalities. They all have their own memories, they all have their own names, they all have their own favorite color, they all have a gender like, they all have something they identify with when it comes to average things that you learn as a kid like "Hey, what's your favorite color? What's your favorite animal?" Kind of, it helps in personifying each of them, which is what they are, and I know that that's a really wide concept for people to kind of understand but that really helps bring it in, like yeah, PhiNyx goes by she/her, both of them individually and together. I do have He/Theys. I have even identities that go by It. So it just, it depends on them, it makes them seem more individual, because they are. And it helps bring the perspective in of like, "Oh, okay, so it's not just you feel one way, and that's a personality and you feel another way," like, but no, they're, they're all themselves. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay, so now if someone is including a player character or non player character in their game with experiences like yours, how would you like to see that character played, and how can the other party members help? Fara Okay, yeah. Um, I've definitely thought about this a lot. Just because the idea, of course, the idea of plurality has been around, it has been executed in many ways, mostly not super great, but ways that I would have improved those or ways I would like to see this happen, is having a character, and honestly, for me, I would love to see someone who has someone with a… has plural symptoms and experiences plurality similar to mine. Have backstories for your plural for every single alter that you want, have their own backstories, have their own opinions, like essentially make character sheets for all of them, not like full stats or anything, well maybe, but, you know, flesh out full characters, and then play all of them like you would see like in a family feud show, or, you know like they are their own family, they're their own system, they're their own unit, they're like their own party, but in one body. Essentially just think of it like that. We're all just one family shoved into a brain. We're all pushing each other around squeezing out for room. "Hey that was mine," you know, um really going for it and sticking to what each of those personalities, what each of those characters want, because they're all gonna have different goals, they're all gonna have different wants, they're all gonna have different needs. And I think that's for, for anyone trying to portray plurality in a PC or NPC, I think that's a really important part —it's just if you're gonna have it, make the characters, put them into one person, and really stick to those personalities, because that's really what makes it is, you know everyone's their own person, and you really have to just stick to that, and if that means you talk to yourself for five minutes going in between personalities and your whole party's looking at you like, "Uh…," that that's what that means, because that's what it's like. Wyrmworks Publishing Okay, so anything else you'd like to add, relative to gaming or plurality, or anything like that. Fara You know, I just, I think just the last note before plugging myself is, overall, if someone comes to you, either being a DM or a player, they say, "Hey, I'm plural. I want to play, " don't knock it quite yet. Talk to them, ask them questions, see what it would be like, what they're expecting, or if you yourself are a plural individual who want to play with people who aren't plural, or even people who are, you know, you need to know what boundaries there are for you, because just as much as this is a new thing for non plural individuals, it's new for you too. You have to be able to set your own boundaries and for the whole system, you should know, you know, where everyone's okay with going, how far everyone's okay with going, how many of you want to front and play and you know how you want to go about that so setting your own boundaries, and finding the boundaries of others is a really important part to playing RPGs with other people, while being plural or playing with plural people. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright so what online projects, social media profiles, would you like to share? Unknown Speaker Yes, so we are IdenTTRPG, super clever—one of my alters came up with it—we are on Reddit, we actually have our own subreddit going. We are on Twitter. And we're kind of starting up TikTok, YouTube, Twitch, we're building all of that up so that we can eventually get to that, that's more of a future project, but right now we're just focused on building a community of people who are mainly plural individuals who just want to be plural and just want to play, because I know plenty of people who I've talked to who I've made friends with who're like yeah, that would be great. I just don't feel comfortable talking about it. So that's what we're working on, we're really working on building a sub community in the RPG world saying "Hey, we are plural. We are plural friendly. If you are plural, or just want to know more or want to find out how to be inclusive. Come here Come hang out, let's all talk, let's open this up, make this a thing, be nice to each other." Wyrmworks Publishing Cool. Alright and so check out our show notes, and we'll have links to all of that. In closing, every one's experience is different, so note that what you heard today doesn't represent everyone with similar symptoms or diagnoses or situations. This is just one example. So, if you would like to come onto the show and help people understand your symptoms so that you can have more accurate representation in in your games or in or so other people can have it in their games. You can go to Wyrmworks Publishing, calm, and contact me there. Fara and PhiNyx and everyone else. Thank you for sharing yourselves with us so that we can bring reality into fantasy, and thus make that fantasy world a reality. Fara Yeah, thanks for having us. It's super cool to be here. Wyrmworks Publishing Well, you're still here, and we appreciate that, so that means you obviously care about making other people's lives better. And so please consider helping us to help you and others do that by supporting our Patreon, link in the show notes, or sign up for our newsletter at WyrmworksPublishing.com. If you see this being helpful, hit that like button. And if you'd like to see more of it, subscribe. If you know people who need to hear this, please pass it on to them. If you think everyone needs to hear this, pass it on to your social media friends, and also I'd like to ask you to wherever you're watching this, leave a review, whether it's just a like button on YouTube, whether it's a review in one of the podcast directories, wherever it is that you're consuming this, review and also we would love your comments. And, and so you can contact us in lots of different ways, links in the show notes, and speaking of comments, let me give you this closing question and we'd love to hear your response to this: What have you learned lately that has broadened your perspective?