Wyrmworks Publishing Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is one of the most misunderstood experiences in our culture. Some people say it doesn't even exist and there's just a lot of debate a lot of misperceptions about it. So, can you use Dungeons and Dragons to actually help people understand what that experience or the collection of experiences that fall under that umbrella are? Welcome to Gaining Advantage. Wyrmworks Publishing Welcome to Gaining Advantage. We're using tabletop role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons to help you make lives better. It's been an interesting past few weeks. You all heard about the slap and are probably sick of hearing in or frustrated with me even bringing it up this late in the game. All right. And we also heard about Bruce Willis, who has aphasia and was going to get mocked by a group and then they pulled back on it. And so a lot of talk about disabilities and accessibility and things like that. And clearly a lot of misunderstanding in our culture. There's boy this is just so much every every time you turn around. Last night, I was watching The Conners. And, and wow, it was like every scene had some kind of ableism, sanism, mocking traumatic brain injury, all kinds of stuff that just really was frustrating to watch and made me question whether I even want to watch that show anymore. But with all of that, then we go and we zoom in to the tabletop role playing game world and especially Dungeons and Dragons. And while this isn't specifically about accessibility, it does talk about inclusion and and helping to understand different people better. You may have heard about Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, which is a product that's been announced by Wizards of the Coast and is going to be a collection of adventures, kind of like the Candlekeep adventures. But all of them are written by black or brown writers and the whole team. My understanding is from those cultures and ancestries and I really appreciate that they're paying attention to that, that they care about that and having proper representation. But now, of course, on this show, we talk about that certainly, we've had guest talking about that and have some more planned in the future. But also we talk about accessibility and so for that today, we're gonna be talking about Adventures in ADHD. And which is just looks like a great product. I backed it. I'm very excited about it. And, and so I encourage you to check out our interview which we'll get to in just a minute. But it's really great to see more of that kind of thing and more of that kind of teaching, helping people just in general to understand each other's experiences. And I think tabletop role playing games are just a phenomenal way to teach people how what other people's experiences are like where you can really kind of jump in and and, you know, kind of walk a mile in their shoes, so to speak. Wyrmworks Publishing So if you missed our Kickstarter, Limitless Heroics, including characters with disabilities, mental illnesses, and neuro divergence in fifth edition, speaking of learning about other people's experience through role playing games, you can still preorder it while we finish the work on it. There's been a lot of pre orders coming in and really excited about that. It will include D&D Fifth Edition game mechanics for over 450 different traits. It's going to have over 200 new assistive magic items, over 50 characters, PC NPC, you know, kind of characters that you can use all kinds of extra help information about accessibility, the service animals with like classes that are kind of like sidekicks but not exactly and they're just really cool, how that got developed. And, and so you can if you're interested in that you want to learn more about it and grab the the preorder sale price which is over a third off the what the retail price gonna be. You can jump over to inclusiveRPG.com, and you can find all of the information and the opportunity to preorder it right there. So with all that said, let's jump into our interview Wyrmworks Publishing Can I have your attention, please? Wait! It's a trick question. What if I were a fey creature? There are consequences! And here to talk with us about that today are Kel and Skald from Awfully Queer Heroes who are currently running a Kickstarter that explores that question. Welcome, Kel and Skald Kel Hi. Skald Hi. Thanks for having us. Kel Thank you. Yes. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so tell us first of all, tell us about your work with Awfully Queer Heroes and then tell us about your Kickstarter. Kel Okay, um, Awfully Queer Heroes started for a couple of different reasons. COVID and D&D. I had only just recently started playing Dungeons & Dragons. When the lockdowns happened, and I really wanted to carry on playing but we how to do that I had no idea what was going to come around. So we just started messaging random people going, your profile looks interesting. You wanna play D&D? So I essentially messaged a whole bunch of queer D&D people and said, Do you want to play? We made a Twitch stream initially that unfortunately didn't didn't work out. So I was like, Great, how can I change this? How can I do things? Put a new podcast made the public server, open things up more to everyone to actually interact with us and went from there but every step of the way, whether it was people's own homebrew worlds that we were playing in, or modules or the official Dungeons and Dragons, Wizards products. Now it was never really a whole bunch of queer things. It was like great, but where am I in this? And where is everyone else that we're playing with? Because we had a very diverse team, and we have a different very diverse team now. And I just wasn't enjoying it as much as it possibly could have been enjoyed because there wasn't that queer element. It was all just very heteronormative which I have no objections to in most situations, but I'm enjoying a game, I want to be seen in the game. So I started making my own things. And that's when the first Kickstarter started to happen. And they kind of just spiraled from there because of my own ADHD. Then recently, last year, actually, I met Skald. And we started chatting. There was a few things that happened. I was just like, I can't take care of Twitter. I'm just gonna abandon it for a couple of months. And she was like, no, no, I'll look after it for you. And we started working together as like, please come onboard permanently. And we split the company. Wyrmworks Publishing Cool. Kel Yeah. Skald That sums it up pretty dang well. I'm definitely the newcomer here with AQH. And this being the first Kickstarter that I've actually been able to be a part of is really exciting. And it's also I think, the largest one that's happened so far, which is also exciting. Might be terrifying, but really exciting. Oh, gosh, Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, it's going well so far seems to be Kel Yes. It's smashed both the highest number of backers and highest amount pledged as backers compared to all of my other ones. People seem to be really quite quite enthusiastic about the ADHD side. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah. Alright, so tell us more about the actual Kickstarter. Kel Do you want to…right, me Okay, just checking. Um, I only found out mid-ish last year about myself having ADHD. I knew that I had certain quirks if you will, and certain ways of doing things that a number of different people didn't have. And I knew that I had particularly different ways of working. I just never put two and two together and actually looked into ADHD. It came about that, you know, I found that out and then stigma started to happen. And people who wouldn't look at me twice at work or that I may know privately or various other situations. They started to behave a bit funnily towards me. I was like, Okay, why? And someone who I know quite well, who doesn't isn't a gossip, but was willing to share some private details was like, Well, it's because you've gone and turned around and said that you've got ADHD. What has that got to do with the price of cheese? How does that change who I am? But apparently everyone's thought I was suddenly a different person. And it really started to annoy me, honestly. So I was like, no, no, I'm the same person. So it's about time we had a conversation about this and I'm, I'm not a shy, retiring, wallflower kind of person. I may Oh, this is gonna be awkward. Great. We're having a conversation about it right now then, kind of person. So I don't know I At the time I knew a lot less about ADHD. I started doing tons of research, trying to figure out, I wanted this to be fun, informative, but not in any way. Put making it so that ADHD was something to be fixed or defeated or anything along those lines. Because people were starting to treat me like I was broken. And I very much dislike that. I A lot of people yes, we'll take medication for ADHD. I'm not disputing that. Hats off to them. I get a lot of my creativity from it. And I work on so many things as a result of it. And for me, it works out Wait, I'm neat. I well. I'm above 35, we should say and I've had plenty of time to adjust and adapt my ways. So for myself, it's fine. I'm happy with that. And I wanted to be able to put this out there for those who don't know, as many of the symptoms because there were tons of things that I didn't know anything about. Lesson number one it's not just, Ooh! Squirrel!, which is what everyone defaults to, but also to try and educate family members or friends of those people that do have it that they're this person that has it isn't suddenly a pariah that you should avoid like the plague. Skald Absolutely. I would add to that just in the content of the Kickstarter itself, with the characters and the side quests and the storyline that you come into contact with. It's a way of through the game learning more about the myriad of different ways in which ADHD manifests because everyone's going to have a different experience with it. There's so many different ways in which it shows up and it can look completely different for one person as it does for another. So understanding all those different ways and through actually some of the quests that you do and the experiences that you have with the characters that you interact with. potentially even finding ways to better understand symptoms that you or people you know, deal with, and even ways of working with them that make it more manageable. Which I think is really really cool. And the whole concept that it's not something to be defeated or destroyed, which comes through in the overarching storyline, because there's not the thrice undead giant BBEG Lich at the end to defeat because that's not what it's about. It's not about you know, pummeling something into the ground. It's about understanding something instead so I think that really comes through in the flavoring as well. Kel One of the playtesters who has given me permission to say this, but I will not mention any detailed personal details for obvious reasons, but they their partner had ADHD and has, and there were times when they really struggled to understand each other and why they were doing things the way that they were doing or what exactly was going through either one of their heads at the various times. And since they've played this they said within two sessions, everything had changed. It makes so much more sense. We're getting along better because I'm like, wait, wait, is this that thing? Yes, yes, this is that. Yes, you finally understand. But they've also now gone and got tested for ADHD themselves, because they had different sets of symptoms, which weren't your standard things. And they were just told, Oh, don't worry, you're just X Y or Zed, and it's not ADHD, they were never tested. So because of that everything's completely changed for them, which is such so nice to hear because that was the very reason I was wanting to do this. And the like first or second group that had it turned around and said that. Wyrmworks Publishing I appreciate that. You know, talking about getting tested and and what you said before about you just found out that Kel that that you had not that long ago and people treat you different even though it's you know it's just like, you may have the diagnosis but it's just, you know, giving a name to who you've always been. And, you know, and that's important that so often these these labels which are helpful, you know, if, you know, for various reasons, either just to understand yourself better and understand what's going on with you or if you are looking for, you know, some kind of, you know, treatment of some kind, you know, to know what's out there and things like that and but it's not like, regardless whether it's ADHD or any other, you know, diagnosis. All it is is is getting a better understanding of, of who you are or of what's going on in your head or your body. And it's not like all of a sudden you're a different person. Skald Exactly. Yeah. I think a lot of that also comes through in the way that it's presented and something that I personally really liked the very first time I read through the playtest copy of the module was as someone who also has ADHD coming to read through this, seeing pieces that I recognize, because I've known it for a while now and I've had time to learn more about it. But having it presented in a way that does not say there is something wrong with you. Which I think is really really important because at the end of the day, we are all different and it can be an incredibly insightful and validating experience to realize that certain things that might you might struggle with, you might have a better way of understanding, so it's an ADHD is one of the things it's very hard to diagnose and is often misdiagnosed. So they just say, Oh, you just have anxiety, or Oh, you just have some form of depression or Oh, you just had this or that. And so actually being able to see it and understand it for what it is. Understanding is the first step, I think and I really like the way in which that is presented through this module is something that is so approachable, that is fun that has its quirks that has a kind of magic to it. Rather than saying this is something that needs fixing, saying let's all hang out, have fun, go to the Feywild and come away with a better understanding. Kel Something that really struck me is when you and I started to first promote this on Twitter before the Kickstarter went live. Excuse me. Someone private messaged me on the AQH account and said, I'm a bit confused. Most of the every module that I've ever seen that presents any kind of ADHD symptom, there is a disadvantage that you're presenting the characters with. Where is this in that? I'm not seeing your disadvantages. I don't understand how this is going to work. And that that really hit me because it's always you're penalized, you're penalized. You're penalized to the point that this person couldn't, from the parts that we were sharing on Twitter, because obviously it hadn't all come out, they couldn't see how it could work if they weren't being penalized and I didn't like that. Wyrmworks Publishing Sure Kel That was no fault of their own. It's how it's always been put across, but that's what I wanted to change. Wyrmworks Publishing You know, I was talking to one of our artists. When I was working on the mechanics for Limitless Heroics, an artist who has ADHD and said you know, help me help me understand this better helped me, you know, work this out to match your experience and said, you know, for me, it's always been a superpower. You know, I can I can really zoom in and focus and just block out other things that so that can you know, get stuff done and, and that and, and, and this you know it it has there's times where it doesn't work the way you want it to you know so so it has drawbacks in that sense. But But overall, I'm you know, I I prefer it this way. Kel Yeah. Wyrmworks Publishing So and this the thing is what it comes down to is however you sort of and then you know that there's lots of different ways to take an experience and and say how okay, how do you present this in, you know, in game terms, right and, and first of all, like you've already mentioned that everyone has their experience with it is different and, and but also everyone's understanding of how, well, everyone's understanding the game mechanics a little different too, just talk about alignment for a minute and you know, we can spend three hours on that and still not agree, and, and then, but also like, what do you what do you hope to get out of it too? And, you know, and so different people want to focus on, you know, sort of different angles, and things like that, too. And so, you know, I was I was talking to somebody else that was working on some mechanics for something and and they said, you know, different people take different approaches to, you know, to different things. And, and that's good. It's nice to have, and I think that's one of the real great things about tabletop roleplaying games is that you know, you can you can do it however you want, you know, it's your game and stuff. So, and the more different people are kind of looking at it from different angles, the better. And, um, you know, so we have different different people take different approaches. You can look at all of them and you're going to learn a little something different from each of them. So, Kel Absolutely. Wyrmworks Publishing So yeah, I'd love you know, the approach that you're taking. So the way you're doing this, it's not then it's, it's it's fun, and it's not preachy, then I take it Kel Yeah, it's absolutely um, Skald DMed a one shot with Alec Azam, hilariously brilliant. And why don't you explain about the cute little um? I'm not gonna name him the Skald Oh the. The ghost, ghost writer? Yeah. Kel I was trying to avoid saying Skald No, but the, there were two things actually that stood out. One of which is that one of the main ways in which the sort of ADHD elements take shape in the module is through the characters that you interact with, and the things that they struggle with and learning to resolve those things. So for example, one of the characters was this ghost, who was a writer who is struggling because there's this massive wall and at the top of it is their next novel that they need to write but this wall is made up of all of their self doubt, and all of their kind of fear and sort of putting off this project and it's become this giant towering thing that's pretty much impossible to get up or over and the characters have to get creative with ways to either try and get to the top or more successfully to sort of motivate and support the ghost and find ways of sort of tackling this problem that are approachable so finding out you know, things that the ghost likes that helps the ghost focus, things that help motivate the ghost and little by little as they do this the wall slowly gets lower and lower, and then it gets more approachable. You can go up to the top and at the end, it's not the entire book that's waiting for them. It's just the first page but the idea being that it doesn't have to be all or nothing you have somewhere to start. It also shows up in the form of monsters, one of my favorite monsters still that blank page, so good. It's just a giant blank page, it's that feeling of when you sit down at a blank page and you have to write something, there's just a giant white sheet staring at you. And just, oh gosh, where do I start? And the more you get afraid of it, the more giant and imposing this sheet becomes until you start to write, you need just one word and then that starts to shrink down. Kel But it's not the characters that have to write the word. It's a poet who would that was their piece of paper. You have to encourage them and try and give them ideas of what to write and how to write it and things like that and get close enough to damage the paper so that it freezes. And then the poet can run in and write something in it and it'll shrink a little bit. But yeah, the ghost writer that's that's one of my favorites by far so cute yeah, I had a lot of fun with that. Skald That was a good one. The other thing I was struck by, and recently was talking to folks over at People's Ascension Gaming was with this module. It's very, very diverse as far as the options that are available to both the players & the DM and this is something that I think is pretty unique because particularly with some of the older modules, even from Wizards they can be a little bit almost not quite railroady, but there's only really one direct way to go about it. But here the way that this one is set up, of all the side quests available, you only need a certain number before you can go on to the next step. So what your characters choose to do what you as a DM, choose to do there's a lot of variety available to you. And even if since it is predominantly roleplay based, if you have a party that really wants to just hit things, there's an option to that as well. There's a limbo built in that is pretty much entirely about combat and fighting beasties, so it's Kel They're mean ones too. Skald Oh gosh, yeah, Kel They were harsh. Skald They're harsh. But it's I think it's really unique in that it offers a above average variety as far as how you go through the module and the options to play through both as a DM in the way that you want to set it up and also for the players and the number of choices that are available to them, which I think is kind of cool. Wyrmworks Publishing Cool, that's great. So how have you seen lives changed because your work? Kel Far less sleep. I do not joke. I am having multiple people tell me recently, Kel you you really need a couple more hours sleep Skald .Very much. Kel I'm simply gonna answer. Social things are occurring more because of Twitter and Discord, which is both hard and nice. We're both introverts that pretend to be extroverts. And we kind of trade offs like I am shattered right now can you deal with these ones for a little while for me and it's like, right, I am done for the next two hours like great I've recharged a little bit. I'll take it back. So yeah, there's definitely that element to having larger accounts, which I didn't know about before. Skald I would say one of the things that has been really nice to see is feedback from other people. Yeah, and this is from people who are either play testers people who have played through some of the content or even just people who are part of the community on Discord discord through Awfully Queer Heroes. Kel Yeah, Skald Getting positive feedback from people saying, you know, thank you. This is a this is a safe space. This is a fun space, or even just with this module, saying I feel very seen by the content in this. I'm really grateful that you all are doing this. So being able to and even just from a few people but being able to get that kind of feedback from people as a creator. That means a lot and it makes a very big impression. It really does. Kel There have been some amazing things that as part of AQH as a whole both of us have been told. And it's it's amazing the difference that some things can can do. One person came on the server and said I found your book in a shop. I took it to my D&D session the next week and the DM started crying because they felt so seen. It was like that. That's what it's for. That's what it's about, you know, so Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's something I think that that people don't always realize is that, you know, you know you your Kickstarter is doing well the and you can look at the you know, the the number of backers or the the money you know, on it, and you get well you know that that allows us to actually create the stuff. Alright, yeah, but the real joy is when you get that feedback when when you hear from people and yeah, and they say hey, thank you so much for doing this and ultimately that's that's what's gonna. That's what keeps creators going. Kel Yes. The other amazing thing that has been such a joy in this is with my previous one Kickstarters I didn't really have the opportunity to be able to work with other creators because I was limited in certain ways, due to different contracts and things. On this one that wasn't the case. And I've been thanks to working with Skald as well. I've just had, right, Skald. I want to do this, this and this, how do we do it? And we've been able to work with so many different creators and it has been amazing. There are so many great people in this community it is unbelievable. Skald And it's really fantastic. Just to be able to work with other people, whether it's through art, through formatting, through advertising, being able to work with some of the other folks who are here who are not only fantastic to work with in a professional sense, but are also just wonderful people. And it's just been super nice not only to get to know them, but to also get to work with them in this kind of setting. It's been great. Yeah. Wyrmworks Publishing Well, you know, you mentioned in the story about how oftentimes the, you know, what you need is for somebody to help you out with something, you know, and that's, that's just sort of standard in life. You know that this what we need the most we need acceptance, we need to you know, to be welcomed into whatever your space that you're in, and to have people there that are going to be there for you. When you need a hand and people that are willing to accept your help too. Skald Yeah, absolutely. Wyrmworks Publishing Right. So you just rescued a djinn from the hands of an efreeti, and it offers you three wishes to achieve your goals to make the world better. What do you wish for? Kel Do you want to go first? Skald Hmm. Mine are pretty boring so I don't know Kel Mine are just chaos, because I am so it's gonna be problematic Skald Hmm, maybe I should go first because then we'll end on a fun note because mine are very, very stale. Kel Go for it. Skald Cool. First one is end to climate change. Second one is that compassion and understanding be the guiding principle of all human interactions. And then the third one I would just save that for emergencies. Kel Damn Skald Wyrmworks Publishing That's not boring. It makes me cry. Kel Yeah, yeah, that's that's why I was like, Damn, geez woman. Okay, mine is a very different flavor of I would make the entire world's gay. Cool. Oh LGBTQIA+, to be specific but as an umbrella term gay. Flamboyantly, so because I would really really love to see. Probably shouldn't say that, actually. And I'd really love to see Robert De Niro in another dress. He pulls it off amazing. So that would be my first wish. My second wish would be the portals open up across the entire world. And fairy fey elven dwarven various different types of creatures invade our planet. Because I think that would be exceptional. Third wish that we get the choice of having player stats assigned to us. If we have players stats assigned to us, we can go do Dungeons and Dragons things or Pathfinder things or whatever stat type base we choose. But if we choose not to we're classified as an NPC, and thereby can't like be killed by random spear throwings and things. Wyrmworks Publishing It's great Skald That's a good one. Kel That would be mine. Wyrmworks Publishing Alright, so what one message would you like to give to neurodiverse gamers Kel Lean into it. Have fun with it. Hmm? Skald Nevermind. Kel Yeah, I I use mine. I lean into it and with absolutely everything that I possibly can I say fuck it. Let's do it. Let's lit chaos. Great. Have it. Weird ideas. Wonderful. Let's write them. Let's play them. That's the backstory. Okay, let's destroy the world. Great. Why am I doing it? Someone stubbed their toe when I was five. I don't know. Just lean into it. Run with the chaos. Skald That's a good one. I don't think I could top that one. Yeah, screw the haters. Yeah, Wyrmworks Publishing right. One message. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Skald I would also say to that that you are not broken. There is nothing wrong with you. We are all different. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, Kel Okay, that was better. Wyrmworks Publishing No, I don't think one is better than the other. In a lot of ways, it's two sides to the same coin. Kel It's why we work well together. Skald does the mostly sensible these are really good presentable answers and I run around with everything on fire doing all the chaos things that she's just like, yes, we're just gonna put this fire out now. It's fine. It's fine. Wyrmworks Publishing And then nice burned design. Kel Yeah, oh, look, there's pretty pattern on the rug now. Maybe we have another match. Wyrmworks Publishing All right. What one message would you like to get to neurotypical gamers? Kel Be more open minded and don't gatekeep, please. Skald I'd say just try putting yourself in everyone else's shoes. Kel Yeah, it's a much nicer way of putting that. I've had a lot I've had a number of people message about this, who are neurotypical and not being the most understanding or very gatekeepery. And that's fine if they don't want to in their sessions, but it's when they try and tell everyone else that that shouldn't be in D&D as a whole that I get a bit upset. But try and be open minded I think because we played with some people over at Tabletop Journeys, hilariously brilliant gentlemen, and as far as I know, none of them have ADHD but they lent into it so hard on two different sessions. It was amazing the stuff that they brought up back. Wyrmworks Publishing Right? Yeah. Yeah. So much that I can. I can definitely echo that experience. That the beautiful thing about D&D is you can or any other tabletop role playing game is, you play it however you want at your table, and how somebody else plays it at their table, whether and this is whether it's a you know, third party supplement that's, you know, in no way official or whether it's something coming straight out of, you know, WotC's offices, you can pick and choose which you want to use and Chris Perkins is not going to show up to you at your door and take away your books. Kel So, absolutely, he'd have a hard time with all of my books, but you can try it. I would just wave pride flag in his face, that's fine. Wyrmworks Publishing He's actually specifically made precisely that point. So I don't think he's going to do it. So what projects are obviously you're working on on the Kickstarter, do you have any plans for you know, after this is all done, which obviously, you know, fulfillment's a whole thing in itself. But what are you looking at in the future that you can talk about? Skald I'm like to explain Yes, so somewhat for the Kickstarter is one thing. There's also currently I think, around nine to 13 other potential projects going on? Yes. But it's all the things happening at once. So what order they happen in and how specifically they happen remains to be seen. But there's many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things in the works. Kel I did finish the second spellbook today. Skald Nice. Yes. So that takes it down to like 13 things. Maybe, Kel Yes, 14, but I also had an idea at lunch. Skald Cool. So we're back up to 14 or 15. Kel Yeah. But yeah, I have a venerable story engine in my head that never stops churning out ideas. I'll be walking down the street and go Oh, my God, that's a great idea and I'll just start writing something down. It is infuriating to most people that I meet who are also creatives. But it doesn't mean that I'm constantly creating something. I'm just like, Skald. I made an outline. Please do things with it and hand it over. Wyrmworks Publishing Awesome. Yeah, that you know that that is a perfect example of how that superpower works when your mind is going different directions and leads to a lot of creativity. I know. I tend to be more the, you know, the person looking at a blank page and saying, you know, what do I do? And, you know, I've got a but at the same time I have a million you know, you talk about check off one thing on the list and add three more you know, that that's very real too. Kel I if I have to if someone says if Skald says to me, okay, well can you can you write this thing for me like… Yes. And then the blank page appears, and I start to panic. But if I'm able to just come up with an idea that I'm just like, Oh, cool. I'll just make a note on that. That note, because it's on my phone. It's technically already on the blank page, so we don't have to think about that then. And I'm the oh Jump Jump, Jump jump jump kind of ADHD and Skald does the eyeball laser focus form of ADHD. Skald Yep. Kel So it works really well. Wyrmworks Publishing Cool. Alright, so we will have all of your contact information in our show notes, but where's the one best place that you would like people to start to learn more about you or to contact you? Kel Probably Twitter, I think AwfullyQHeroes. I couldn't fit the whole queer word in there. Sadly. Wyrmworks Publishing Yeah, I hear that. I tried to fit publishing in my twitter name, and it didn't fit. So Kel It's a little a little too long. Sadly. Wyrmworks Publishing All right. So both of you, thanks so much for coming on the show. Everyone, check out those links in the show notes and go back that Kickstarter. Kel Thank you very much for having us. Skald Thank you so much for having us. Really appreciate it. Wyrmworks Publishing So just a reminder speaking of learning about other people's experiences, when we have people available, we also like to include a second segment in this show called Playing the Other where people with disabilities, neurodiversity, and mental illness come and talk about their experiences and how it relates to gaming. Right and so there's also a chance if you are a creator, you want to tell us about some of the cool stuff that you've made or project you have coming up or something like that. You will have the opportunity to do that too. So if you'd like to be a guest on that segment, just go over to WyrmworksPublishing.com/contact and and then you can just send me a note and we'll get that set up. Wyrmworks Publishing If you have not signed up for our newsletter yet, I encourage you to do that right now. Just pause this go over do that even close this out and go do that. Alright, there are dozens and dozens of 4k combat maps that you can use especially as people or you can use them in virtual tabletop. Some communities where transmission rates are low people are starting to get back together again in person and something that you can print out nice, high quality to use with miniatures and and so you can get all of those for free. You can we just added a bunch more. You can get subclasses or free subclass and discounts, specials, Latest News, just all kinds of stuff that also stuff that we could not include in limitless hooks because of licensing, but we can talk about in blog posts and so we'll let you know about those as well. And so all of that just go over to Wyrmworks Publishing.com and you'll see the sign up for the newsletter there and, and jump on there. So also if you'd like to support the work that we're doing, we encourage you to check out our Patreon that you can just make sure that we can keep on doing this on an ongoing basis. And and we've got plans for upcoming projects there everything people find out about there first before anyone else. Wyrmworks Publishing And so if you see this being helpful, please hit the like button. If you'd like to see more of it, subscribe. If you know people that need to hear this, please pass it on to them. And if you, like me, think that everyone needs to hear this. This is really awesome. Just pass it on to your social media friends. And don't forget those podcasts ratings. Thanks for your time. Wyrmworks Publishing And so what real world experience would you like to explore in a D&D setting? Transcribed by https://otter.ai